Comments on: The Failed Promise of the "Piston" AR-15 Conversion http://vuurwapenblog.com/2009/10/21/the-failed-promise-of-the-piston-ar-15-conversion/ Concise, impartial firearm, ammunition, accessory, holster, and gear reviews Sun, 05 Feb 2012 03:05:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: 45Super http://vuurwapenblog.com/2009/10/21/the-failed-promise-of-the-piston-ar-15-conversion/#comment-6106 45Super Sun, 18 Dec 2011 23:29:05 +0000 http://87gn.wordpress.com/?p=77#comment-6106 If you own an AR-15 and refer to a magazine as a clip, it should be taken away from you. They're not even close to being the same thing and confusing that fact screams "gun-tard." If you own an AR-15 and refer to a magazine as a clip, it should be taken away from you. They’re not even close to being the same thing and confusing that fact screams “gun-tard.”

]]> By: Ryan http://vuurwapenblog.com/2009/10/21/the-failed-promise-of-the-piston-ar-15-conversion/#comment-4805 Ryan Fri, 23 Sep 2011 18:44:00 +0000 http://87gn.wordpress.com/?p=77#comment-4805 DI? I kid, I kid! But in all seriousness, I have to agree with Jon. I am one who purchased one of those "garbage" Adams Arms carbine drop-in kits, as you would probably describe it. It has been the most reliable rifle I have ever used. I barely lube it (I sometimes run it completely dry), clean it and it never fails to feed, fire and extract a round no matter what brand of ammo I am using. I gotta say, it gives me a lot of peace of mind to know that 1) I dont worry about carbon build-up, 2) I dont worry about having to maintain the rifle meticulously, 3) I dont have to worry about how well lubricated the system is, 4) Suppressor use is easy with the adjustable gas piston systems. Having said all that, I understand it's not the end-all be-all of the AR-15. If you are a casual shooter who doesnt put massive amounts of lead downrange, or someone who doesnt mind cleaning/maintaining their rifles a lot, you certainly dont NEED to be looking at a piston AR. As for our military members out in the bush, I think a Piston (op-rod) driven AR is just the ticket, when configured/designed properly. The last thing you want to be worrying about is if your rifle is lubed up enough! It is far less critical to make sure you've oiled/cleaned up your M16 when it's driven by an op-rod. The adverse conditions make a piston/op-rod driven M16 a no brainer, in my opinion. The slight extra weight and "different" recoil impulse (I say different because it's not recoiling any harder, it just feels different) does not outweigh the benefits. I can say without a doubt that I would not go back to DI unless I had a match grade setup where I will not be pumping tons of rounds through it. DI?

I kid, I kid! But in all seriousness, I have to agree with Jon. I am one who purchased one of those “garbage” Adams Arms carbine drop-in kits, as you would probably describe it. It has been the most reliable rifle I have ever used. I barely lube it (I sometimes run it completely dry), clean it and it never fails to feed, fire and extract a round no matter what brand of ammo I am using. I gotta say, it gives me a lot of peace of mind to know that 1) I dont worry about carbon build-up, 2) I dont worry about having to maintain the rifle meticulously, 3) I dont have to worry about how well lubricated the system is, 4) Suppressor use is easy with the adjustable gas piston systems.

Having said all that, I understand it’s not the end-all be-all of the AR-15. If you are a casual shooter who doesnt put massive amounts of lead downrange, or someone who doesnt mind cleaning/maintaining their rifles a lot, you certainly dont NEED to be looking at a piston AR. As for our military members out in the bush, I think a Piston (op-rod) driven AR is just the ticket, when configured/designed properly. The last thing you want to be worrying about is if your rifle is lubed up enough! It is far less critical to make sure you’ve oiled/cleaned up your M16 when it’s driven by an op-rod. The adverse conditions make a piston/op-rod driven M16 a no brainer, in my opinion. The slight extra weight and “different” recoil impulse (I say different because it’s not recoiling any harder, it just feels different) does not outweigh the benefits.

I can say without a doubt that I would not go back to DI unless I had a match grade setup where I will not be pumping tons of rounds through it.

]]> By: Ar-15 Gas or piston - Stormfront http://vuurwapenblog.com/2009/10/21/the-failed-promise-of-the-piston-ar-15-conversion/#comment-73 Ar-15 Gas or piston - Stormfront Sat, 18 Dec 2010 20:04:32 +0000 http://87gn.wordpress.com/?p=77#comment-73 [...] are vented outside the rifle resulting in a chamber that can go much longer between cleanings. The Failed Promise of the Piston AR15 (*Click*) [...] [...] are vented outside the rifle resulting in a chamber that can go much longer between cleanings. The Failed Promise of the Piston AR15 (*Click*) [...]

]]> By: 87gn http://vuurwapenblog.com/2009/10/21/the-failed-promise-of-the-piston-ar-15-conversion/#comment-72 87gn Sun, 21 Mar 2010 17:12:44 +0000 http://87gn.wordpress.com/?p=77#comment-72 I've fired as many as 3,000 rounds through a DI AR in a week with no malfunctions. Something is wrong with your brother's ARs. I’ve fired as many as 3,000 rounds through a DI AR in a week with no malfunctions. Something is wrong with your brother’s ARs.

]]> By: jon http://vuurwapenblog.com/2009/10/21/the-failed-promise-of-the-piston-ar-15-conversion/#comment-71 jon Fri, 19 Mar 2010 22:35:45 +0000 http://87gn.wordpress.com/?p=77#comment-71 great article but i disagree with you saying direct gas impingment is comparable to a gas pistons reliability,i might not be a gun journalist but i can say from personal experience the piston operates more reliably.my brother has two gas impingment ARs one colt and the other bushmaster,both costing over $1,300 each.we did a test with his well maintained ARs and my new LWRC m6a2,and it involved stacking our clips with different ammo not just one bad brand.it included wolf,and surplus ammo.my LWRC m6a2 chewed through all five clips easily with no malfunctions,the same can't be said for my brothers guns with four malfunctions from the bushmaster and three for the colt out of five 30 round clips stacked with different ammo.my brother was a little upset after that test because he takes really good care of his rifles.we didn't do an endurance test because we like our guns to much.i can also shoot .80 minute all day long with optics at 100yards as well can my brother. great article but i disagree with you saying direct gas impingment is comparable to a gas pistons reliability,i might not be a gun journalist but i can say from personal experience the piston operates more reliably.my brother has two gas impingment ARs one colt and the other bushmaster,both costing over $1,300 each.we did a test with his well maintained ARs and my new LWRC m6a2,and it involved stacking our clips with different ammo not just one bad brand.it included wolf,and surplus ammo.my LWRC m6a2 chewed through all five clips easily with no malfunctions,the same can’t be said for my brothers guns with four malfunctions from the bushmaster and three for the colt out of five 30 round clips stacked with different ammo.my brother was a little upset after that test because he takes really good care of his rifles.we didn’t do an endurance test because we like our guns to much.i can also shoot .80 minute all day long with optics at 100yards as well can my brother.

]]> By: gunblobber http://vuurwapenblog.com/2009/10/21/the-failed-promise-of-the-piston-ar-15-conversion/#comment-70 gunblobber Sat, 06 Feb 2010 20:41:40 +0000 http://87gn.wordpress.com/?p=77#comment-70 Nice post. Thanks for explaining everything so well. I never realized the full path that the gas takes inside the AR-15 bolt carrier -- I thought that it was more or less just a piston system without a piston. Nor was I aware of all the issues with the op-rod AR's now being offered. As somebody who just bought a Sig 556, I am relieved to find out that I made the right choice. The 556 operating system is pretty much pure AK (look at my latest post for a comparison of the bolts and carriers; I will be doing a more detailed post about the takedown of the 556 soon) despite the external similarity of the lower to the AR-15. Anyway, I just read your entire blog over the past couple of days. Nice work! Your posts have been very informative. Nice post. Thanks for explaining everything so well. I never realized the full path that the gas takes inside the AR-15 bolt carrier — I thought that it was more or less just a piston system without a piston. Nor was I aware of all the issues with the op-rod AR’s now being offered. As somebody who just bought a Sig 556, I am relieved to find out that I made the right choice. The 556 operating system is pretty much pure AK (look at my latest post for a comparison of the bolts and carriers; I will be doing a more detailed post about the takedown of the 556 soon) despite the external similarity of the lower to the AR-15.

Anyway, I just read your entire blog over the past couple of days. Nice work! Your posts have been very informative.

]]> By: rachid http://vuurwapenblog.com/2009/10/21/the-failed-promise-of-the-piston-ar-15-conversion/#comment-69 rachid Mon, 18 Jan 2010 00:07:35 +0000 http://87gn.wordpress.com/?p=77#comment-69 I was wondering what you think of the PWS piston system? I understand the piston (with piston) vs gas key/carrier as the piston, but the PWS system has a piston that is attached to the key like the AK. So I'd assume the carrier would not tilt if the piston is still inside the tube for a long stroke. I was wondering what you think of the PWS piston system? I understand the piston (with piston) vs gas key/carrier as the piston, but the PWS system has a piston that is attached to the key like the AK. So I’d assume the carrier would not tilt if the piston is still inside the tube for a long stroke.

]]> By: 87gn http://vuurwapenblog.com/2009/10/21/the-failed-promise-of-the-piston-ar-15-conversion/#comment-68 87gn Wed, 30 Dec 2009 07:57:50 +0000 http://87gn.wordpress.com/?p=77#comment-68 Feel free to highlight any errors, I'm not looking to spread misinformation, especially about a quality manufacturer. Prices, as you know, have been fluctuating. I'm still unable to find a NIB M6A2/M6A3 for under 2 grand, save a brief sale by one vendor. Is there substantial data that shows "revised" LWRC weapons will outperform their 07/08 counterparts from a longevity standpoint? I do believe that I implied 20,000 trouble free rounds as being nothing to sneeze at... Feel free to highlight any errors, I’m not looking to spread misinformation, especially about a quality manufacturer. Prices, as you know, have been fluctuating. I’m still unable to find a NIB M6A2/M6A3 for under 2 grand, save a brief sale by one vendor.

Is there substantial data that shows “revised” LWRC weapons will outperform their 07/08 counterparts from a longevity standpoint? I do believe that I implied 20,000 trouble free rounds as being nothing to sneeze at…

]]> By: 87gn http://vuurwapenblog.com/2009/10/21/the-failed-promise-of-the-piston-ar-15-conversion/#comment-67 87gn Wed, 30 Dec 2009 07:52:51 +0000 http://87gn.wordpress.com/?p=77#comment-67 LWRC has apparently changed their barrels a number of times. Regardless, it's still significantly heavier than comparable non-piston/op-rod carbines in the price range. LWRC has apparently changed their barrels a number of times. Regardless, it’s still significantly heavier than comparable non-piston/op-rod carbines in the price range.

]]> By: Kir http://vuurwapenblog.com/2009/10/21/the-failed-promise-of-the-piston-ar-15-conversion/#comment-66 Kir Wed, 30 Dec 2009 07:40:29 +0000 http://87gn.wordpress.com/?p=77#comment-66 FWIW, the LWRC does not use a 'heavy' barrel. It uses a gov't profile barrel without the M203 notch. FWIW, the LWRC does not use a ‘heavy’ barrel. It uses a gov’t profile barrel without the M203 notch.

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